Pagina 1 di 4
Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 19:48
da nene
Buona sera, mi dicono che probabilmente ho qualche malware sul mio iMac e non so come fare una pulizia nel caso ci fosse qualche elemento sospetto, non ho antivirus anche se mi consigliano di prendere uno, per favore un aiuto su come fare?, tutto è partito perché il mio provider mi ha bloccato temporaneamente internet per un presunto malware nel mio sistema, poi ho chiamato per farlo sbloccare ma risulta che nel mio sistema operativo qualche malware ci sia .... ho un iMac 24 inca,M1 2021, chip Apple m1, ventura 13.1, grazie mille
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 20:32
da spegahsheen
Come prima cosa farei una scansione con
DetectX Swift. Poi aspetterei ulteriori suggerimenti da altri utenti del forum più esperti di me
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 20:55
da mauripucci
nene ha scritto: ↑lun, 12 feb 2024 19:48
... ho un iMac 24 inca,M1 2021, chip Apple m1,
ventura 13.1
Ventura 13.1 ovvero una versione del dicembre 2022, oggi siamo alla
13.6.4.
Oltre a far girare -come già suggerito- DetectX Swift.app, provato ad aggiornare?
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 21:04
da Alberto.G
nene ha scritto: ↑lun, 12 feb 2024 19:48
..., per favore un aiuto su come fare?, ...
Il primo aiuto che ti possiamo dare (siamo tutti d’accordo su questo) è NON installare nessun antivirus… nulla!
Poi come ti ha suggerito spegahsheen esegui la scansione con DetectX, un programma che è gratis ed è utile in questi casi.
Per postare correttamente il report che viene prodotto, ti consiglio di leggere il Tutorial che ho preparato, vedi link
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52394
E' facile.
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 22:06
da nene
rieccomi spero di aver fatto tutto giusto come chiesto, e vi ringrazio per l'aiuto, nel frattempo ho aggiornato il mac a Sonoma 14.3.1 (23D60)
Codice: Seleziona tutto
Timestamp (6): Mon Feb 12 21:51:58 2024
DetectX Swift v1.0983
macOS: Version 14.3.1 (Build 23D60)
File System: apfs
Temp: The thermal state is within normal limits.
Boot time: Mon Feb 12 21:34:02 2024
Uptime: 18 mins, 1 user
Spotlight status for /:
Indexing enabled.
System Integrity Protection status: enabled.
Gatekeeper status: enabled for App Store and identified developers.
FileVault is On.
Internet: Reachable
Hardware Overview:
Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac21,1
Model Number: Z12W001DYSM/A
Chip: Apple M1
Total Number of Cores: 8 (4 performance and 4 efficiency)
Memory: 16 GB
System Firmware Version: 10151.81.1
OS Loader Version: 10151.81.1
Provisioning UDID: 00008103-001448561ED0C01E
Activation Lock Status: Enabled
Sharing Preferences:
File Sharing: On
Screen Sharing: On
Remote Management: Off
Back To My Mac: Off
Remote Login: Off
Remote Apple Events: Off
3rd Party Kexts (loaded):
$PATH:
PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin
/etc/paths:
/usr/local/bin
/System/Cryptexes/App/usr/bin
/usr/bin
/bin
/usr/sbin
/sbin
/etc/paths.d/:
/var/run/com.apple.security.cryptexd/codex.system/bootstrap/usr/local/bin
/var/run/com.apple.security.cryptexd/codex.system/bootstrap/usr/bin
/var/run/com.apple.security.cryptexd/codex.system/bootstrap/usr/appleinternal/bin
~/.bash_profile:
~/.bashrc:
~/.bash_login:
~/.profile:
~/.bash_logout:
PID Status Label
- 0 com.bittorrent.uTorrent
- 0 com.openssh.ssh-agent
- 0 com.microsoft.update.agent
- 78 com.teamviewer.desktop
- 0 com.oracle.java.Java-Updater
2198 0 application.com.sqwarq.DetectX-Swift.19855813.19855825
- 0 com.microsoft.OneDriveStandaloneUpdater
- 78 com.teamviewer.teamviewer
- 0 com.dropbox.DropboxMacUpdate.agent
System Launchd processes:
0 - com.purevpn.macapp.HelperTool
0 - com.vix.cron
0 78 com.teamviewer.service
0 - com.google.GoogleUpdater.wake.system
0 - com.teamviewer.Helper
0 - com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper
0 0 com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper
0 0 org.cups.cupsd
886 - com.microsoft.OneDriveStandaloneUpdaterDaemon
0 - com.microsoft.OneDriveUpdaterDaemon
0 - com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool
User Login Items:
/Applications/Surfshark.app
/Applications/Surfshark.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/LaunchAgent.app
/Applications/uTorrent Web.app
/Applications/Dropbox.app
/Library/LaunchDaemons:
com.microsoft.OneDriveStandaloneUpdaterDaemon.plist
-> Program: /Applications/OneDrive.app/Contents/StandaloneUpdaterDaemon.xpc/Contents/MacOS/StandaloneUpdaterDaemon
com.microsoft.OneDriveUpdaterDaemon.plist
-> Program: /Applications/OneDrive.app/Contents/OneDriveUpdaterDaemon.xpc/Contents/MacOS/OneDriveUpdaterDaemon
com.google.GoogleUpdater.wake.system.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Library/Application Support/Google/GoogleUpdater/Current/GoogleUpdater.app/Contents/MacOS/GoogleUpdater
--> Program Arguments: --wake-all
--> Program Arguments: --enable-logging
--> Program Arguments: --vmodule=*/components/update_client/*=2,*/chrome/updater/*=2
--> Program Arguments: --system
com.purevpn.macapp.HelperTool.plist
-> Program: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.purevpn.macapp.HelperTool
--> Program Arguments: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.purevpn.macapp.HelperTool
com.google.keystone.daemon.plist
com.apple.installer.osmessagetracing.plist
--> Program Arguments: /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/OSInstaller.framework/Resources/OSMessageTracer
com.teamviewer.Helper.plist
-> Program: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.teamviewer.Helper
--> Program Arguments: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.teamviewer.Helper
com.teamviewer.teamviewer_service.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Applications/TeamViewer.app/Contents/MacOS/TeamViewer_Service
--> Program Arguments: -Module
--> Program Arguments: Full
com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper.plist
-> Program: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper
--> Program Arguments: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper
com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Resources/Helper-Tool
com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist
-> Program: /Library/PrivilegedHelperTools/com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper
/Library/LaunchAgents:
com.google.keystone.xpcservice.plist
com.teamviewer.teamviewer_desktop.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Applications/TeamViewer.app/Contents/Helpers/TeamViewer_Desktop
--> Program Arguments: -RunAsAgent
--> Program Arguments: YES
--> Program Arguments: -Module
--> Program Arguments: Full
com.google.keystone.agent.plist
com.teamviewer.teamviewer.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Applications/TeamViewer.app/Contents/MacOS/TeamViewer
--> Program Arguments: -RunAsAgent
--> Program Arguments: YES
com.oracle.java.Java-Updater.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Resources/JavaUpdater.app/Contents/MacOS/JavaUpdater
--> Program Arguments: -bgcheck
com.microsoft.OneDriveStandaloneUpdater.plist
-> Program: /Applications/OneDrive.app/Contents/StandaloneUpdater.app/Contents/MacOS/OneDriveStandaloneUpdater
com.microsoft.update.agent.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Library/Application Support/Microsoft/MAU2.0/Microsoft AutoUpdate.app/Contents/MacOS/Microsoft Update Assistant.app/Contents/MacOS/Microsoft Update Assistant
--> Program Arguments: --launchByAgent
~/Library/LaunchAgents:
com.dropbox.DropboxMacUpdate.agent.plist
--> Program Arguments: /Users/[U502]/Library/Dropbox/DropboxMacUpdate.app/Contents/MacOS/DropboxMacUpdate
--> Program Arguments: -check
--> Program Arguments: periodic
com.bittorrent.uTorrent.plist
--> Program Arguments: /usr/bin/open
--> Program Arguments: -n
--> Program Arguments: /Applications/uTorrent.app
User Crontab:
No cron jobs
/etc:
kcpassword
rc.common
bashrc_Apple_Terminal
zshrc_Apple_Terminal
bashrc
krb5.keytab~orig
zshrc
rc.netboot
localtime~orig
efax.rc~previous
ntp.conf~orig
php.ini.default-previous~orig
php.ini.default-5.2-previous
aliases
uucp / .. children: 3
zprofile
/ $Root:
.file
.VolumeIcon.icns
opt / .. children: 0
~/ $Home:
eTax_ticino2017-macos.dmg
.config / .. children: 3
Music / .. children: 24
eTax_ticino2022-macos.dmg
.install4j
iCloud Drive (Archivio) - 1 / .. children: 8
.CFUserTextEncoding
eTax_ticino2016-macos.dmg
iCloud Drive (Archivio) / .. children: 2
.icesoft / .. children: 1
Pictures / .. children: 23
Desktop / .. children: 44
Library / .. children: 115
Cereto P. Sara_Massagno.tipf2020-new.pdf
.oracle_jre_usage / .. children: 25
.android / .. children: 3
eTax_ticino2020-macos.dmg
.cups / .. children: 1
Sites / .. children: 1
.bash_sessions / .. children: 4
.DDPreview / .. children: 1
Public / .. children: 4
.dropbox / .. children: 12
eTax_ticino2018-macos.dmg
iCloud Drive (Archivio) - 2 / .. children: 6
Movies / .. children: 10
Applications / .. children: 1
Dropbox / .. children: 14
.Trash / .. children: 1
Documents / .. children: 77
.mcf / .. children: 2
eTax_ticino2019-macos.dmg
.dvdcss / .. children: 3
Downloads / .. children: 65
.cache / .. children: 2
.bash_history
~/Library:
Daemon Containers / .. children: 5
com.apple.appleaccountd / .. children: 3
Filters / .. children: 0
CloudStorage / .. children: 0
Address Book Plug-Ins / .. children: 4
studentd / .. children: 3
PDF Services / .. children: 0
Staging / .. children: 0
HomeKit / .. children: 32
DES / .. children: 3
com.apple.WatchListKit / .. children: 2
com.apple.aiml.instrumentation / .. children: 3
Translation / .. children: 2
Trial / .. children: 4
UIKitSystem / .. children: 1
Google / .. children: 1
Contacts / .. children: 1
Family / .. children: 1
ResponseKit / .. children: 10
AppleMediaServices / .. children: 3
com.apple.icloud.searchpartyd / .. children: 11
DataAccess / .. children: 1
SafariSandboxBroker / .. children: 0
Personas / .. children: 3
DuetExpertCenter / .. children: 9
HTTPStorages / .. children: 42
DataDeliveryServices / .. children: 1
FrontBoard / .. children: 3
News / .. children: 1
Biome / .. children: 5
EQATEC Analytics / .. children: 3
IntelligencePlatform / .. children: 28
Shortcuts / .. children: 4
UnifiedAssetFramework / .. children: 5
Dropbox / .. children: 1
Finance / .. children: 9
Weather / .. children: 15
com.apple.bluetoothuser / .. children: 1
ContainerManager / .. children: 5
Intents / .. children: 1
Fonts Disabled / .. children: 0
PersonalizationPortrait / .. children: 7
Photos / .. children: 1
Accessibility / .. children: 4
userData / .. children: 4
Reminders / .. children: 1
com.apple.bluetooth.services.cloud / .. children: 3
com.apple.iTunesCloud / .. children: 3
StatusKit / .. children: 1
DoNotDisturb / .. children: 1
LockdownMode / .. children: 0
~/Library/Application Support:
com.apple.sbd / .. children: 1
com.apple.replayd / .. children: 0
DrFoneApps / .. children: 3
DropboxElectron / .. children: 7
SyncServices / .. children: 1
com.apple.kvs / .. children: 1
Mozilla / .. children: 1
networkserviceproxy / .. children: 3
com.apple.transparencyd / .. children: 5
com.apple.touristd / .. children: 25
Hewlett-Packard / .. children: 0
DiskImages / .. children: 1
Microsoft AU Daemon / .. children: 2
EasyFind / .. children: 0
DiskDrill / .. children: 2
CoreParsec / .. children: 0
com.apple.ap.promotedcontentd / .. children: 4
BenVista / .. children: 2
Aiseesoft Studio / .. children: 1
com.apple.exchangesync / .. children: 0
OneDriveStandaloneUpdater / .. children: 1
Animoji / .. children: 2
2022-08-16-api.txt
com.apple.akd / .. children: 2
Skype Helper / .. children: 0
2022-08-16-log.txt
MobileSync / .. children: 1
Smartflix / .. children: 4
uTorrent / .. children: 372
Google / .. children: 4
Kaspersky Lab / .. children: 1
Microsoft / .. children: 3
com.apple.MediaPlayer / .. children: 1
Oracle / .. children: 1
dr.fone / .. children: 1
dmd / .. children: 0
homeenergyd / .. children: 1
com.malwarebytes.mbam.frontend.application / .. children: 1
Java / .. children: 8
com.microsoft.OneDriveStandaloneUpdater / .. children: 1
com.apple.NewDeviceOutreach / .. children: 1
T / .. children: 1
CEF / .. children: 1
AKVIS / .. children: 1
Visan / .. children: 2
VLC / .. children: 1
TrustedPeersHelper / .. children: 0
com.crashlytics / .. children: 1
EtreCheck / .. children: 1
Adobe / .. children: 3
MediaHuman / .. children: 1
org.videolan.vlc / .. children: 1
DesktopDPO-d00b9882479ed9b4899926f5c7e44f49 / .. children: 2
Gtk2 / .. children: 3
TeamViewer / .. children: 1
HP Photo Creations / .. children: 1
com.sqwarq.DetectX-Swift / .. children: 4
Aperture / .. children: 0
com.apple.ContextStoreAgent / .. children: 0
com.surfshark.vpnclient.macos.direct / .. children: 1
FileProvider / .. children: 12
com.smartflix.Smartflix.ShipIt / .. children: 0
FaceTime / .. children: 3
Folx / .. children: 8
WAF / .. children: 4
Dropbox / .. children: 4
com.apple.AMPLibraryAgent / .. children: 2
Preview / .. children: 0
com.apple.windowmanager / .. children: 1
µTorrent / .. children: 1
Information Factory / .. children: 95
DVD Player / .. children: 1
uTorrent Web / .. children: 6
wondershare / .. children: 2
com.apple.wallpaper / .. children: 1
Skype / .. children: 11
com.apple.siri.inference / .. children: 1
Microsoft Update Assistant / .. children: 2
com.apple.avfoundation / .. children: 1
transparencyd / .. children: 0
Helper / .. children: 1
Microsoft AutoUpdate / .. children: 2
DesktopDPO / .. children: 2
com.malwarebytes.mbam.frontend.agent / .. children: 1
TemWebRTCPlugin / .. children: 2
Movavi Photo Editor 3 / .. children: 1
syncdefaultsd / .. children: 0
Google Earth / .. children: 3
com.apple.RemoteManagementAgent / .. children: 3
GIMP / .. children: 1
Megadede / .. children: 11
JREInstaller / .. children: 1
com.apple.accounts.dom / .. children: 0
Eltima Software / .. children: 0
DesktopDPO-6bc83914cf7cb3dd8e394440f92a9b6d / .. children: 2
~/Library/Safari/Extensions:
Pin It Button.safariextz
Extensions.plist
~/Library/Internet Plug-Ins:
Folx3Plugin.plugin
/Users/Shared:
Previously Relocated Items 8 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 1 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 6 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 7 / .. children: 3
SC Info / .. children: 0
Previously Relocated Items 9 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 15 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 12 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 24 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 23 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 22 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 25 / .. children: 3
.AKVIS.Sketch.conf
Previously Relocated Items 13 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 14 / .. children: 3
Avery Products Corp.-DesignPrintIT-Design&Print.ini
Library / .. children: 1
AKVIS / .. children: 0
Previously Relocated Items 5 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 2 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 3 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 4 / .. children: 3
Avery Products Corporation-DesignPrint-Design&Print.ini
Previously Relocated Items 11 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 16 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 20 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 18 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 26 / .. children: 2
Previously Relocated Items 19 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 21 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 17 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items 10 / .. children: 3
Previously Relocated Items / .. children: 4
.betamigrated
/Applications:
VLC.app
Google Earth Pro.app
Hewlett-Packard / .. children: 5
Flash Player
Pool.app
Google Chrome.app
CollageFactory Free.app
Dropbox.app
OnyX.app
Disk Drill Media Recovery.app
OneDrive.app
DetectX Swift.app
Microsoft Word.app
eTax.ticino PF 2022 / .. children: 5
PhotoZoom Pro 7.app
dr.fone.app
Microsoft Excel.app
WhatsApp.app
FileShredder.app
The Unarchiver.app
Microsoft OneNote.app
Skype.app
Burn ISO Pro.app
Microsoft PowerPoint.app
ifolor Designer.app
App for Facebook.app
Folx.app
Mac FoneTrans
PhotoScapeX.app
YouTube to MP3.app
Friendly Streaming.app
/Library:
Apple / .. children: 3
DropboxHelperTools / .. children: 3
OSAnalytics / .. children: 2
StagedDriverExtensions / .. children: 0
Catacomb / .. children: 1
Trial / .. children: 3
Google / .. children: 3
InstallerSandboxes / .. children: 2
KernelCollections / .. children: 1
DriverExtensions / .. children: 0
Automator / .. children: 94
Bluetooth / .. children: 7
User Template / .. children: 41
Fonts Disabled / .. children: 16
SystemExtensions / .. children: 2
/Library/Application Support:
com.apple.backgroundassets.user / .. children: 0
Mozilla / .. children: 1
com.apple.TVIdleScreen / .. children: 1
.TDgdwjRgim
Macromedia / .. children: 2
Mica / .. children: 1
Google / .. children: 4
Microsoft / .. children: 2
BTServer / .. children: 11
Oracle / .. children: 1
com.apple.idleassetsd / .. children: 5
Visan / .. children: 1
Adobe / .. children: 5
TeamViewer / .. children: 1
HP Photo Creations / .. children: 4
livefsd / .. children: 0
/Library/Extensions:
AppleMobileDevice.kext
hp_Inkjet1_io_enabler.kext
/Library/Internet Plug-Ins:
SharePointBrowserPlugin.plugin
SharePointWebKitPlugin.webplugin
JavaAppletPlugin.plugin
/Library/Managed Preferences:
*-- Folder doesn't exist or is inaccessible --*
/Library/PrivilegedHelperTools:
com.teamviewer.Helper
com.purevpn.macapp.HelperTool
com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper
com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper
/Library/ScriptingAdditions:
/Library/StartupItems:
/Library/Updates:
ProductMetadata.plist
Top Processes:
%CPU PID COMMAND
9.2 378 WindowServer
4.1 0 kernel_task
1.7 2198 DetectX Swift
0.7 371 bluetoothd
0.5 790 UniversalControl
0.4 364 PerfPowerService
0.3 1523 com.apple.WebKit
0.2 348 thermalmonitord
0.1 423 mDNSResponder
0.1 374 corebrightnessd
«»EOF»«
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: lun, 12 feb 2024 22:53
da macbio
mauripucci ha scritto: ↑lun, 12 feb 2024 20:55
nene ha scritto: ↑lun, 12 feb 2024 19:48
... ho un iMac 24 inca,M1 2021, chip Apple m1,
ventura 13.1
Ventura 13.1 ovvero una versione del dicembre 2022, oggi siamo alla
13.6.4.
Oltre a far girare -come già suggerito- DetectX Swift.app, provato ad aggiornare?
ogii a dire il vero siamo a Sonoma 14.3
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 09:01
da nene
aggiornato a Sonoma 14.3.1
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 09:56
da Alberto.G
nene hai fatto tutto giusto, per cui complimenti!
Sei uno dei pochi che, al primo invio del report, ha postato tutto in modo corretto! Grazie.
Cosa però importante è sapere se la scansione che ha eseguito DetectX è terminata con un OK, che vuol dire che non ha trovato né adware né malware o altri potenziali pericoli.
Altrimenti produce una lista con gli elementi che ritiene possano essere un pericolo per il Mac in quanto portatori di adware e/o malware.
Quindi dacci conferma che tutto sia a posto con un bel OK, altrimenti ci invii la lista facendo uno screenshot e poi come Allegati.
Da un primo esame del report Profile inviato, non rilevo presenza di malware se non qualcosa che andrebbe eliminato per tutta sicurezza.
Questo vedremo poi.
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 10:29
da Hammarby
Da quello che vedo io è pulito.
Ci sono applicazioni pesanti che sono installate e partono automaticamente ma niente che sembri pericoloso
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:12
da nene
Grazie mille per il vostro aiuto, sinceramente non sono molto pratico e non so dove controllare se è tutto ok, nel profile o nelle History di Detectx?
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:16
da Alberto.G
Ci basta questa immagine che è importante come prima diagnosi
- Schermata 2024-02-13 alle 11.14.15.png (368.08 KiB) Visto 539 volte
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:17
da nene
ho trovato questo nelle History:
[/img]
- Screenshot 2024-02-13 alle 11.14.24.png (436.24 KiB) Visto 537 volte
[/img]
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:23
da Alberto.G
Proprio quello che cercavamo!
Questa lista ti dice che hai 5 elementi potenzialmente pericolosi, secondo DetectX.
Sono da eliminare per sicurezza.
Già questa app ti permette laloro eliminazione.
Basta evidenziare ciascun elemento o file, mettere la spunta sul quadratino a sinistra, poi cliccare sul simbolo [ X ] nero, in alto a dx.
Fatto questo, riavvia il Mac e rilancia DetectX per verifica che tutti gli elementi siano stati cancellati.
Dacci notizia
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:29
da nene
Grazie, grazie mille ..... pensavo fosse più complicato ma alla fine sono riuscito grazie a i vostri preziosi aiuti, ora è OK, non so se devo fare ancora qualcosa
Re: Malware sul mio mac
Inviato: mar, 13 feb 2024 11:33
da nene
Una domanda, questa operazione con DetectX è consigliabile farla ogni certo periodo di tempo??....